June 10, 2004
The Society that Isn't Social
The other day I was talking to a native New Yorker who now lives in the PNW. Somehow we started discussing the social philosophies that seem to exist here in this area. Back in Scotts Hill, Tennessee, where my daddy was from, we would sit out on the front porch in the swing just talking and watching the twilight creep in. Folks would drive by on the country road, see us and stop to visit. Of course, we were related to half the countryside, but still, it was a custom.
In Illinois, friends would drop by, or we'd be in a neighborhood and stop to say hello to someone. Seems it is the same in New York. But here? Nobody comes by without calling and making an appointment. All houses are built so that if you sit out on a porch or deck, it's not going to be facing the street. Yards are fenced in and hedges grown to keep people from seeing in. The neighbors keep to themselves unless it is to complain about the dogs barking. Nobody stays for dinner or says "let's go get a pizza" or asks you if you want to get together and make applesauce one day next week. If you suggest something of the sort they ask you why you don't just buy it, or hire it done. Nobody wants to come over and hang out on a Friday night playing cards or working a puzzle or making homemade ice cream. I'm pretty sure it's not me and the Gray-- everywhere else I've lived these things are done. In other places, folks invite you to dinner and you reciprocate. It doesn't matter how fancy or plain your house is, how gourmet the food is, how much money you make or don't. It's all about the company and the conversation.
My theory is that the kind of people who move here are very much individualists. They come for the "solo" sports of hiking, fishing, cycling, mountain climbing, computer programming, etc. The original settlers were those who at least shunned society enough to be able to survive long lonely trails out west, and to endure the death of many in their wagon trains. I imagine by the time they got here they were different people.
Added to that is the irony of the suburbs-- you can't walk to the market, so you don't meet and greet folks on the way. The large population means you rarely bump into friends while out shopping or dining. In fact, in order to have a social life, you really have to work at it. And don't get me started on how women these days think that they have to work or they're viewed negatively like hey, you can't get a job? so they don't have time to have friends. The PNW is not known for its high church attendance, either, which is one of the places that encourages a sense of community.
So what is there to do? The optimist in me says knit! spin! weave! and join groups and guilds that do these things. The pessimist in me says that by doing this you only meet women (generally) and you cut out the very old and the very young, and the men. If you have extended family in the area, they take up some of the slack. If you work, you meet friends at work and some places seem to socialize together and others don't. It's very puzzling to me.
Where am I going with this? I really don't have a clue. I just wanted to put into writing some of the thoughts I've been having-- about why I'm compelled to knit even though I can't seem to finish anything. It goes beyond a natural love of fiber and handwork and extends into a need for community and friendship.
You can get some of that sense of community through online groups, blogs, etc. but then you have a couple thousand imaginary friends, many of them mute. Those that do "speak" you imbue with a face of your own concoction; you imagine the voice that goes with the words; you place emphasis and inflection on their words based on what kind of person you think they are. Sometimes you meet them; you are shocked that they are different than what you imagined. Or they say or do something totally weird or ridiculous or inflammatory and you feel like you've been stuffed into the toilet and flushed. It's like online dating, really. (Yes, I met my Great Gray through matchmaker.com). But while dating online, you can insist on meeting right away so that you don't waste time giving someone a face and voice other than his own.
Okay, enough of that.
I've been knitting garter stitch. She's in garter-stitch mode again, I hear "Them" murmur around me. This is Lisa Souza's Moriah in the color Seaglass, and I am working on the center of the Crepe Shawl from Heirloom Knitting. I would be halfway through it by now, but I spent an hour and a half untangling my yarn last night. I'm happy with it, it will be good soiree knitting and when it's done it will be lovely.
Sheila,
As a PNW, everything you say is true! I always wonder why everything has to be scheduled and seem to enjoy the best times with friends that just happen. It seems even for a movie now days you have to plan ahead, prebuy tickets, etc. You can't be spontaneous!
Posted by: Rebecca on June 10, 2004 10:50 AMSigh. Everything you say is true of California as well. It might be even worse here because everything is so expensive, so people's lives are dominated by their pursuit of money and they (we) are terrified of stepping out of the rat race. I would love to quit my job, but it's just wouldn't be practical to do so. Yes, I'm burnt out, but the knitting and the online knitting friends do help.
Posted by: Linette on June 10, 2004 11:43 AMSheila - You've described my neighborhood perfectly. And it's really sad. Since this is my first "home" and it's an established neighborhood, I was really looking forward to all of the things that you described. Things that I used to see my mom and dad and our family participate in as I was growing up in MA. Though when we moved to Ohio, they did fewer things with fewer friends.
On the first Christmas after I moved in, I put together a little gift of homemade pumpkin bread, a bag of dog snacks and a card for my next door neighbor and their dog. When I dropped it off, they looked at me like I was crazy. Needless to say, this was apparently not SOP for the neighborhood, as I never heard anything back, nor have they ever shown any neighborliness. The only reason that I even know their last name is that I sometimes get their mail by accident! And I don't know their phone number. If I run out of sugar - the grocery store is my only option. :)
The funny thing is that I've been seriously considering a move to the PNW - because of my love for those individualist activities - hiking, etc. Naively, I guess, I've been thinking that I'd feel more welcome in a community where people share my interests, yet from your description, it might not be that different from where I am now. Hmmm.
Posted by: Mary on June 10, 2004 12:39 PMFunny you should mention the settlers....I've always had the same thought. It's almost as though they felt so completely cramped on the eastern side that they felt the need to cross an entire continent for splendid isolation, and then just managed to pass that crankiness on down through the generations. LOL I've lived in Maryland (very young then)where people would always just drop by; PNW where I was born and did some of my growing up; eastern Washington, where people are even more cliquish than anywhere I've ever been (i.e. if you really wanted to run with the crowd there, you pretty much needed to join the club as an embreyo), and Wyoming, where people are so far apart from each other, it doesn't matter if they like excessive personal space or not. But so far, Wyoming has been the most difficult place to make face to face friends....the only ones I have really made have come from fiber arts! In point of fact, I lived in this town for 4 1/2 years, knowing very few people until our LYS opened up.
Oh, and I, too, met my DH on the internet...funny story, that. I'll have to tell you when you have time. *grin*
Posted by: RebeccaL on June 10, 2004 12:41 PMMary, it might be that as a hiker you would have more of a community here, as in, wide range of ages and both genders. I don't know because I don't hike or ski or bike or any of those things. I was humiliated enough in gym class throughout my growing up that I shy away from anything requiring strength and endurance. But hey! move in our neighborhood and I'll drop in on you with a plate of cookies and a couple of dogs.
It's so sad to hear that this situation exists in California too, Linette, but I guess it is to be expected with so many people having to drive forever to get to work and so many people moving in and out all the time. Ironically, it is the immigrant communities here that thrive socially. Russians, Chinese, Vietnamese, Indians, Persians, Koreans, Japanese, Romanians and Scandinavians all seem to have very close communities here; they all live in the same neighborhoods, have their own grocery stores, etc. They are lucky.
Rebecca, you're making me depressed! But I guess at least the population in Wyoming isn't always whizzing around you without so much as a how-do-you-do.
Posted by: Sheila on June 10, 2004 12:57 PMYou should move to my neighborhood. There are many lovely and some new houses for sale on our street. We have lawn chairs in our front yard because it is perfectly common for us to sit out there many a pleasant evening with our neighbors. We have 4th of july semi-block parties that have traditionally ended in gigantic waterfights (including adults) and we have been known to have an occasional game night. Even though our house is in need of much work , insulation and rewiring, and even though we could use a few more square feet of living space, we'd be hard pressed to move too far because we have stumbled on a rare situation - real neighbors who really know each other. I never got to experience that growing up and it is special. People are too busy today. I know what you mean about the stopping by to chat etal. The only person I can ever convince to come over last minute (besides my immediate neighbors) is Felina S. Everyone else is so scheduled. It is sad. Maybe if we could remember to pull together as neighbors, we could remember to unite ourselves as a country. A little less self absorption would be nice.
All that said and done - stop on by sometime! We'll drink lemonade under the cherry tree.
Kim
Posted by: kim on June 10, 2004 01:15 PMDidn't mean to be depressing! LOL I guess my point (that I didn't seem to get to) was that no matter how isolated we feel, there will always be someone out there we have something in common with. We may have to work a little harder at it, but they're there; and in a world where we're having to constantly keep an eye on Mrs. Cravitz instead of being able to ask her point-blank about her bomb, it's at least a small comfort. *grin*
BTW, I'm going with one of those fiberfriends this weekend to Estes Park Wool Market. Need a sheep while I'm there? :-)
Posted by: RebeccaL on June 10, 2004 01:20 PMHaving grown up in the PNW I guess I never reflected on this much - our day to day interaction with the neighbors is neither as sociable and informal as what Sheila recalls from her childhood, nor as distant as what some of you describe. But we live in a city neighborhood and maybe the physical proximity is a helpful factor. Also we have a dead-end alley behind our house and all the folks with a backyard on the alley are a lot more likely to stop and chat with each other than the ones "across the street."
Interesting comment about Eastern Washington! Our experience in the Methow Valley has been different (although it is true for some folks you could never live there long enough to be considered a local!) and I fervently hope it will be different as we are planning to move there in a few years. Folks in Twisp, anyway, seem real friendly and informal entertainments like card games, etc seem to be a lot more common.
Posted by: Katie on June 10, 2004 03:00 PMI recently moved to Boston, and I could swear you are describing my neighborhood. Some joke about how unfriendly New Englanders can be, but I didn't believe it until I saw how people *studiously* avoid eye contact, don't ask how you are, don't know how to respond when greeted on a sidewalk, look startled when you ask them how their weekend was... They don't care about me and are confused or suspicious when I act like I care about them. I grew up in the Midwest, and I miss the friendliness of the grocery clerks, people saying good morning if you were out walking the dog, etc. The nicest and friendliest people I've met here are ones who grew up in other parts of the US (or another country altogether).
Posted by: June on June 10, 2004 08:31 PMDang, left behind again. I often think about a topic you have raised, try to formulate a response, then log on again to find the world has moved on. Oh well. Let it be said that I like your Chippendale. I think you are too close to it, have perhaps created an imposing level of importance to it (thinking of others knitting a design is petrifying), and have forgotten that there is no such thing as perfection--and in fact no need for it! Sure, any one color could be replaced with another at any point--but at a certain time we have to get on with it. And I'm not kidding that my credo is "If it's finished it's beautiful!"
I'm a third-generation PNWesterner, descended from Swedes on one side. We are like hermit crabs, it's true. But I have chosen to live in a very mixed-class in-city neighborhood so that we can have the kind of life you describe. Here, people park on the street, so we say hi coming and going. We share labor and anecdotes. We have keys to each others' homes, call and ask for help letting the dog out or feeding the cat. My experience is that, at least in Seattle, you can't find this unless you live in a neighborhood that is not wealthy--people have to be around during the day. We don't have much to live up to--our block has a few nice homes, many medium, 3 shacks, and three brand new ones. Ours is a 1917 bungalow, all 1100 square feet of it is charming and creaky and cramped. But we don't have to make it perfect because it's not a perfect neighborhood. And we have several local coffee shops for gathering--think Cheers. And a non-chain video store in walking distance. Ditto the corner store for deli and vegetables, the pet groomers, the hardware store. What do we sacrifice? A certain aesthetic, bucolic peace, visual control, space. I totally love visiting homes like yours, but I love living in my neighborhood so I make some sacrifices. So, sometimes when the doorbell rings it's the Jehovah's Witnesses (who I now know by name) and sometimes it's a friend stopping by and sometimes it's a neighbor. Don't give up! It happens even here.
Wait, do you really want Mrs. Cravitz stopping by???
Posted by: Janine on June 10, 2004 09:15 PMHoney , if I lived in the Seattle area, I promise that I would drop by lots!
Posted by: Angela on June 10, 2004 11:22 PM"The optimist in me says knit! spin! weave! and join groups and guilds that do these things. The pessimist in me says that by doing this you only meet women (generally) and you cut out the very old and the very young, and the men."
My dear, I just got home from an open knit-night at a bookstore and taught a delight young man to cast on and garter stitch.
"You've done this before haven't you?"
"Not since I was four years old."
"Oh, I could tell...the MUSCLE memory is still there," I purred, giving his arm an encouraging squeeze.
He's coming back next week to learn to cast off.
Posted by: Felina Schwarz on June 10, 2004 11:27 PMVery interesting reading about everyone's experiences. I always imagined neighbors in the PNW having coffee and delicious muffins together every morning and talking about interesting weighty topics. But guess not!
I grew up in and now live in suburban Philadelphia and have been blessed with hilarious friendly neighbors both growing up in my parents' house and now in my own house. People in general though, I have found, are not that friendly in the Northeast. I also lived for a year in Wheeling, West Virginia. The first day I was there I was driving to my new job and a guy raking leaves in his yard waved at me when I drove by. I thought he thought I was someone else, but after some weeks there I realized everyone did this. A lovely place with lovely people.
Posted by: Diana on June 11, 2004 05:32 AMOne of the things that drew me to Baltimore was that it has some of that old-fashioned neighborliness - a nice change after 13 years in the D.C. suburbs. Not all neighborhoods are like that, but many are, including mine. Lucky I guess!
Posted by: CarolineF on June 11, 2004 07:01 AMTwo Words-Air Conditioning. Remember when we were little kids and we all percolated through the neighborhood playing outside, while out parents sat on porches or hung laundry? We shopped "downtown" walking from store to store...then the signs with the penguins -oh i know they were cute but ultimately they were our downfall-started creeping in to store windows. "Come on in...it's COOL inside" they beckoned. And we did and then we got Air Conditioning in our homes, AND color t.v. and our lives were forever changed. Either that or we are all too lazy to walk next door and borrow sugar.
tanya
Midwestern gal here, We grew up in that neighborhood, everyone knew everyone. I am now in the burbs or my hometown and it's still the same, although I could use more school age children as immediate neighbors. Our kids are too young to roam the burb, but I am sure it will come when Mom loosens the leash. But in this day and age I can't afford to let them roam. Most of my compatriots work, I stay at home trying to find kids that aren't in day care to play with my kids. Good thing cousins are plentiful and still in town. My closet friends...my knitting friends.
Posted by: Chris on June 11, 2004 07:52 AMAha! AC and TV. I knew acronyms were evil. I think that is the best point yet. But I'm so glad to hear that in some necks of some woods things are as they should be, even in my own area. And leave it to Felina to purr over some starry-eyed man who will go so far as to learn to knit in hopes that she is a stray he can take in :-)
If and when we ever move, I will definitely be trying to find a friendly neighborhood like Kim's or Janine's. Maybe one where tvs are banned. AC is not generally needed and seldom installed in houses here.
Posted by: Sheila on June 11, 2004 07:59 AMSheila, you should move a few miles north! ;-) The very day we moved into our house in Marysville, our neighbors brought us a salmon fresh out of the river! And they called later to make sure we knew how to cook it. I have never lived near such friendly, lovely people. They have worked all winter to pull me out of my self-imposed isolation.
Even so, I am very much looking forward to your next soiree. We all know fiber friends are the best kind!
/ Why./ To tell it to." Rooted in a literary flower consciousness at once Romantic and ironic, southwest airline this is as fresh and compelling a poetic state treatment of a familiar subject as one is actor likely to find in any century.--Fred Muratori, fantasy baseball Cornell Univ. Lib., Ithaca, NY Copyright eminem 2001 Cahners Business Information.Is it gift verse or is it fiction? What a question. education online
Posted by: best buy on July 2, 2004 09:07 AMOnline casino
Posted by: online casino on September 2, 2004 01:48 AMFast Wares
Posted by: Fast Wares on September 5, 2004 02:51 AMPlaying texas holdem always keep your strategy in mind, raise your bets and your total slowly but steadily. If you know and understand something about this game (texas holdem poker, online poker) that your opponent does not, you will play a better game. http://www.texas-holdem-0.com
Posted by: texas holdem on September 6, 2004 09:03 AMpoker tips
Posted by: poker tips on September 9, 2004 03:56 AMpoker sites
Posted by: poker sites on September 9, 2004 06:42 AMCruise line
Posted by: Cruise line on September 9, 2004 12:26 PMpoker tips
Posted by: poker tips on September 10, 2004 02:09 AMonline poker tips
Posted by: online poker tips on September 10, 2004 04:53 AMpoker tournament
Posted by: poker tournament on September 10, 2004 07:31 AMparty poker
Posted by: party poker on September 13, 2004 02:29 AMpacific
Posted by: pacific poker on September 13, 2004 05:14 AMonline poker
Posted by: online poker on September 13, 2004 02:21 PMonline poker
Posted by: online poker on September 14, 2004 01:04 AMmortgage loan
Posted by: mortgage loan on September 14, 2004 02:37 AMpoker online
Posted by: poker online on September 14, 2004 06:03 AMtexas holdem
Posted by: texas holdem on September 14, 2004 01:15 PMonline poker
Posted by: online poker on September 15, 2004 03:59 AMpoker tips
Posted by: poker tips on September 15, 2004 09:25 AMonline poker
Posted by: online poker on September 16, 2004 06:30 AMpoker tournament
Posted by: poker tournament on September 16, 2004 11:15 AMonline poker
Posted by: online poker on September 17, 2004 02:33 AMonline casino
Posted by: online casino on September 17, 2004 04:12 AMonline poker
Posted by: online poker on September 17, 2004 04:38 AMtexas holdem tips
Posted by: texas holdem tips on September 17, 2004 05:05 AMonline casino
Posted by: online casino on September 17, 2004 05:16 AMtexas holdem
Posted by: texas holdem on September 17, 2004 05:23 AMonline poker
Posted by: online poker on September 19, 2004 02:42 PMonline poker
Posted by: online poker on September 19, 2004 02:42 PMinternet gambling
Posted by: internet gambling on September 19, 2004 02:45 PMonline gambling
Posted by: online gambling on September 19, 2004 02:45 PMonline gambling
Posted by: online gambling on September 20, 2004 02:49 AMonline poker
Posted by: online poker on September 20, 2004 02:51 AMonline casino
Posted by: online casino on September 20, 2004 03:28 AMtexas holdem
Posted by: texas holdem on September 20, 2004 03:30 AM